Many modern readers find Grace either annoyingly foolish or they sympathise with her because her lack of power in societyand the family. How do you feel about Grace? Talk about anything she says or does in the play to support your answer.
While i do find Grace is quite annoyingly silly and meek, i can't help but feel sorry for her. In their society, she's very powerless and submissive and she obviously hasn't received a high level of education. Grace is very unassertive and does what Arthur tells her, which shows how little power she has in the household. Grace also doesn't really understand what is happening in the Ronnie's case and even admits to not understanding what is going on during the court sessions, which just shows that she is uneducated and not all too bright. She also gladly talks about her curtains to an interviewer who is meant to be talking about the case to Arthur. I also find her quite pathetic at times. She needs to go to her own daughter for advice and isn't very assertive or independent; always doing what she's told and not really have much say in anything. It is clear that her own daughter, Catherine, is much smarter, stronger and braver than Grace, but she's definitely a victim of her time. Maybe, if Grace had lived during our time she might have become a very smart, strong and independent woman.
I agree with you on the fact that Catherine is much smarter, stronger and braver than Grace, but the part when you said that "if Grace had lived during our time she might have become a very smart, strong and independent woman", I would say it really depends on what COUNTRY and what SOCIAL CLASS she is, because in some countries, just like some areas in Indonesia, people are as uneducated, and are just as superstitious, and stuff like that, as well if she was not in a high social class. And if you think well, Catherine was on the same time as her mother, and she was not like that, just like you said, she is "much smarter, stronger and braver", and obviously not a victim of her time (of course, Catherine was a great exception of her time, but this comment was just to cause some controversy ;-)
I said "might", obviously we can't really know and I agree that it would of course depend on the country and social class. Maybe if she lived in England and was upper middle class, as she is in the book, she might not be so weak and submissive. Yes, Catherine was an exception of her time, i think, Grace has even made comments about how she's not a typical girl. She's not as emotional and doesn't show her feelings and talk about/read typically "girly" things. Catherine was one of the feminists/suffragettes who brought about a change and maybe if she was born EARLIER she may have been more like her mother. Obviously we can't really know, just a speculation. ;)
^^ But maybe if she was born in this time she might be just the same as she is in the book; just as silly, timid and compliant. I think either way she would probably still be very "girly" and as much of a gossip as in the book.
- In my opinion, I find Grace annoyingly foolish but I also sympathies with her because her lack of power in society and the family. Back in the 1910’s it was more of a patriarchal type of society where there wasn’t much of a high expectation for women as they weren’t highly educated like the men. Grace doesn’t have much of a say in the family, it’s all up to the Head/Man of the house, Arthur. In page 9, Grace portrays herself as a stereotypical girly girl when she talks about love to Catherine “do you love him dear?” Catherine says she does but Grace thinks that she isn’t showing it. Talking to Catherine, “You’re such a funny girl. You never show your feelings much, do you? You don’t behave as if you were in love.” “One doesn’t read Len Roger. One reads Byron.” Having being brought up with little education, Grace leans towards the superstitious side, ‘the lower the education, the higher their belief in superstition is’’ after announcing their engagement, the household decides to have a toast, Catherine asks “Are we allowed to drink our own health’s?” Grace replies “No. It’s bad luck.” We can also tell that Grace is afraid of Arthur when Violet slips out that Ronnie is back home without Arthur knowing so he asks for an explanation and Grace looks at Catherine with helpless enquiry and when Arthur asks her to read the letter, again Grace looks at Catherine for advice. I feel pitiful for Grace that she has to go to her own daughter for advice to talk to her husband. I agree with Lucy, If Grace was brought up in our time she would have become an intelligent woman.
Yes i agree, It seems that Grace is a stereotypical woman of her time and Catherine is quite the opposite of her mother. I agree that her superstitions are due to a lack of education and we can see that the more educated people (like Arthur) find her superstitions silly. (I'm pretty sure he says so but i don't have my book so i can't check where, sorry)
For me, Grace IS annoyingly foolish, BUT I also sympathize with her because we have to consider that she is like that (annoyingly foolish) because she is not educated, as seen in the passage from pg. 29 - 30, when Grace shows her superstitions to be something she truly believes, and usually when education is low, superstitions are high. Grace is the kind of person (almost like Desmond) that we look at and can simply laugh, such as in moments like when she tells Arthur to knock on the floor three times as a sign his talk with John was done, and suddenly, as a "coincidence", Grace and Catherine would come in (pg. 11). It's this kind of plans that makes us laugh and think "Wait...what?! That's a stupid idea!", just like said by Arthur (also pg. 11) "Don't you think it might look a trifle co-incidental?". However, apart from laughing, I would also say that in that moment when she starts challenging/testing(/whatever you want to call that) Catherine's love for John (pg. 8, 9, 10), she shows herself truly annoying.
seemingly I agree with Beatrice and Lucy in the fact that Grace is annoyingly foolish but we sympathize with her, and that she lacks of educations, as I said as well as Lucy. I just didn't add that on the text because I couldn't see their comments before I actually posted mine
I also find Grace very annoying and foolish but I feel sorry for her because of her lack of power like all the people who stated before me. Women not being educated was something that was normal at that time so maybe most of the people didn't think it was something they bothered. The proof she's not eductaed well are the fact she just obeys her husband, believes in superstitions, and handles ronnie like a kid although he is 14. Since women's education has been better thesedays I think Grace will become an intelligent woman if she grew up in this time like Lucy and Ellie said.
To be honest, while reading the book, I never thought Grace was annoying or foolish but sympathize on her. All I remember about Grace in this book was getting revealed her age by Arthur and always losing quarrel to Catherine and Arthur and eventually ending it by getting embarrassed. I just felt sorry for her for the whole time reading the book
I'm not sure who this is (Tom or Hongju), but I agree with you. I didn't find Grace annoying, however did just feel sorry for her because of the circumstances she was faced in.
I really find Grace annoyingly foolish for being so talkative and breaking the serious mood in the family by spoiling some important information for few times. I really don't like characters such as her that are talkative and meddlesome. But I am not sure if I sympathize on her. I feel sorry for her for being grown up as a maid without proper education which led her not to have any power in society and family. However, I've rarely been in situation where I don't have much power in the family, since I'm the first child in my family, and the society since I've usually stepped up and acted as leader. So I am kind of both.
To be honest, I would have to disagree with everyone so far and say I do not find Grace annoyingly foolish. It is obvious that she has not grown up with a high level of education and there are many scenes of the play that truly highlight her "ditzy" moments, however it does not annoy me. She is very feminine and lacks power, much unlike her daughter Catherine, who is different from the majority of females in that era – a feminist. I purely empathize Grace – she is a mother of three with an intimidating husband and an ever-growing, newspaper-headlining issue that is creating tension between the family, consuming their money and giving their family name a bad reputation. She is neither willing nor intelligent enough to speak up, and regularly left clueless about what is happening. The relationship between Grace and Arthur is incredibly stereotypical of that time. Arthur is the patriarchal man of the household and often shows to order his obedient, un-opinionated wife around. As a reader, I find it easy to determine that despite not given much say, does not have the courage, intelligence or motivation to make a change. We must put into account that she, along side many other women through out that period of time, had not received the education that women are offered in nowadays. I believe that under different educational circumstances, with the strong minded daughter and social standing as she has, it is possible that Grace could in fact have grown up to be an intelligent and confident woman.
While i do find Grace is quite annoyingly silly and meek, i can't help but feel sorry for her. In their society, she's very powerless and submissive and she obviously hasn't received a high level of education. Grace is very unassertive and does what Arthur tells her, which shows how little power she has in the household. Grace also doesn't really understand what is happening in the Ronnie's case and even admits to not understanding what is going on during the court sessions, which just shows that she is uneducated and not all too bright. She also gladly talks about her curtains to an interviewer who is meant to be talking about the case to Arthur. I also find her quite pathetic at times. She needs to go to her own daughter for advice and isn't very assertive or independent; always doing what she's told and not really have much say in anything. It is clear that her own daughter, Catherine, is much smarter, stronger and braver than Grace, but she's definitely a victim of her time.
ReplyDeleteMaybe, if Grace had lived during our time she might have become a very smart, strong and independent woman.
I agree with you on the fact that Catherine is much smarter, stronger and braver than Grace, but the part when you said that "if Grace had lived during our time she might have become a very smart, strong and independent woman", I would say it really depends on what COUNTRY and what SOCIAL CLASS she is, because in some countries, just like some areas in Indonesia, people are as uneducated, and are just as superstitious, and stuff like that, as well if she was not in a high social class. And if you think well, Catherine was on the same time as her mother, and she was not like that, just like you said, she is "much smarter, stronger and braver", and obviously not a victim of her time (of course, Catherine was a great exception of her time, but this comment was just to cause some controversy ;-)
DeleteI said "might", obviously we can't really know and I agree that it would of course depend on the country and social class. Maybe if she lived in England and was upper middle class, as she is in the book, she might not be so weak and submissive. Yes, Catherine was an exception of her time, i think, Grace has even made comments about how she's not a typical girl. She's not as emotional and doesn't show her feelings and talk about/read typically "girly" things. Catherine was one of the feminists/suffragettes who brought about a change and maybe if she was born EARLIER she may have been more like her mother. Obviously we can't really know, just a speculation. ;)
Delete^^ But maybe if she was born in this time she might be just the same as she is in the book; just as silly, timid and compliant. I think either way she would probably still be very "girly" and as much of a gossip as in the book.
Delete- In my opinion, I find Grace annoyingly foolish but I also sympathies with her because her lack of power in society and the family. Back in the 1910’s it was more of a patriarchal type of society where there wasn’t much of a high expectation for women as they weren’t highly educated like the men. Grace doesn’t have much of a say in the family, it’s all up to the Head/Man of the house, Arthur. In page 9, Grace portrays herself as a stereotypical girly girl when she talks about love to Catherine “do you love him dear?” Catherine says she does but Grace thinks that she isn’t showing it. Talking to Catherine, “You’re such a funny girl. You never show your feelings much, do you? You don’t behave as if you were in love.” “One doesn’t read Len Roger. One reads Byron.” Having being brought up with little education, Grace leans towards the superstitious side, ‘the lower the education, the higher their belief in superstition is’’ after announcing their engagement, the household decides to have a toast, Catherine asks “Are we allowed to drink our own health’s?” Grace replies “No. It’s bad luck.” We can also tell that Grace is afraid of Arthur when Violet slips out that Ronnie is back home without Arthur knowing so he asks for an explanation and Grace looks at Catherine with helpless enquiry and when Arthur asks her to read the letter, again Grace looks at Catherine for advice. I feel pitiful for Grace that she has to go to her own daughter for advice to talk to her husband. I agree with Lucy, If Grace was brought up in our time she would have become an intelligent woman.
ReplyDeleteYes i agree, It seems that Grace is a stereotypical woman of her time and Catherine is quite the opposite of her mother. I agree that her superstitions are due to a lack of education and we can see that the more educated people (like Arthur) find her superstitions silly. (I'm pretty sure he says so but i don't have my book so i can't check where, sorry)
DeleteFor me, Grace IS annoyingly foolish, BUT I also sympathize with her because we have to consider that she is like that (annoyingly foolish) because she is not educated, as seen in the passage from pg. 29 - 30, when Grace shows her superstitions to be something she truly believes, and usually when education is low, superstitions are high. Grace is the kind of person (almost like Desmond) that we look at and can simply laugh, such as in moments like when she tells Arthur to knock on the floor three times as a sign his talk with John was done, and suddenly, as a "coincidence", Grace and Catherine would come in (pg. 11). It's this kind of plans that makes us laugh and think "Wait...what?! That's a stupid idea!", just like said by Arthur (also pg. 11) "Don't you think it might look a trifle co-incidental?".
ReplyDeleteHowever, apart from laughing, I would also say that in that moment when she starts challenging/testing(/whatever you want to call that) Catherine's love for John (pg. 8, 9, 10), she shows herself truly annoying.
seemingly I agree with Beatrice and Lucy in the fact that Grace is annoyingly foolish but we sympathize with her, and that she lacks of educations, as I said as well as Lucy. I just didn't add that on the text because I couldn't see their comments before I actually posted mine
DeleteI also find Grace very annoying and foolish but I feel sorry for her because of her lack of power like all the people who stated before me. Women not being educated was something that was normal at that time so maybe most of the people didn't think it was something they bothered. The proof she's not eductaed well are the fact she just obeys her husband, believes in superstitions, and handles ronnie like a kid although he is 14. Since women's education has been better thesedays I think Grace will become an intelligent woman if she grew up in this time like Lucy and Ellie said.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, while reading the book, I never thought Grace was annoying or foolish but sympathize on her. All I remember about Grace in this book was getting revealed her age by Arthur and always losing quarrel to Catherine and Arthur and eventually ending it by getting embarrassed. I just felt sorry for her for the whole time reading the book
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure who this is (Tom or Hongju), but I agree with you. I didn't find Grace annoying, however did just feel sorry for her because of the circumstances she was faced in.
DeleteI really find Grace annoyingly foolish for being so talkative and breaking the serious mood in the family by spoiling some important information for few times. I really don't like characters such as her that are talkative and meddlesome.
ReplyDeleteBut I am not sure if I sympathize on her. I feel sorry for her for being grown up as a maid without proper education which led her not to have any power in society and family. However, I've rarely been in situation where I don't have much power in the family, since I'm the first child in my family, and the society since I've usually stepped up and acted as leader. So I am kind of both.
To be honest, I would have to disagree with everyone so far and say I do not find Grace annoyingly foolish. It is obvious that she has not grown up with a high level of education and there are many scenes of the play that truly highlight her "ditzy" moments, however it does not annoy me. She is very feminine and lacks power, much unlike her daughter Catherine, who is different from the majority of females in that era – a feminist. I purely empathize Grace – she is a mother of three with an intimidating husband and an ever-growing, newspaper-headlining issue that is creating tension between the family, consuming their money and giving their family name a bad reputation. She is neither willing nor intelligent enough to speak up, and regularly left clueless about what is happening. The relationship between Grace and Arthur is incredibly stereotypical of that time. Arthur is the patriarchal man of the household and often shows to order his obedient, un-opinionated wife around. As a reader, I find it easy to determine that despite not given much say, does not have the courage, intelligence or motivation to make a change. We must put into account that she, along side many other women through out that period of time, had not received the education that women are offered in nowadays. I believe that under different educational circumstances, with the strong minded daughter and social standing as she has, it is possible that Grace could in fact have grown up to be an intelligent and confident woman.
ReplyDelete